What happens when faith is formed through creativity, curiosity, and hands-on participation rather than rows and sermons? In this episode, Heather sits down with Crystal Goetz to explore the shared heartbeat between Messy Church and Fresh Expressions. Together they unpack how intergenerational, creative, and hands-on spaces cultivate openness, curiosity, and connection—often in places far beyond a traditional sanctuary. Crystal shares surprising stories of discipleship that unfolds across generations and reflects on how participatory, experiential communities naturally invite people into belonging from the very beginning. Crystal Goetz is a session writer, ambassador, and trainer for Messy Church USA, bringing her long-time experience as a Family Ministries Director into creating inclusive content and launching Messy Churches in unconventional community spaces. When she’s not immersed in all things Messy Church, she enjoys making junk journals and reclaimed paper ephemera, watching English football with a cup of tea, and traveling or playing games with her family. Crystal often says, “Messy Church is my church,” finding deep meaning in its interactive, inquisitive nature and dedicating herself to helping Messy Churches grow and thrive for years to come. This season, we’re diving into the streams of Fresh Expressions — from senior adults and recovery ministry, to arts, outdoors, recreation, and more. Each month, you’ll hear directly from practitioners who are navigating these fresh ways of being church in the world. Their stories will spark your imagination and encourage you to see where God is already at work in your community and how you might join in! So whether you’re a pastor, lay leader, or simply curious about how church can thrive beyond the walls, join us for Season seven of the Fresh Expressions Podcast. Related Resources:

What if faithfulness in rural ministry isn’t about moving faster—but about listening longer? In this episode of the Rural Renewal Podcast, we hear from PJ and Melanie, two co-pastors planting a church in southwestern Virginia who have learned to let prayer, patience, and presence set the pace. They share honestly about discerning God’s leading, choosing slowness in a culture that rewards speed, and remaining open to change—even when it’s uncomfortable or costly. Their story is a reminder that deep roots are formed through intentional prayer, trust in God’s timing, and the courage to adapt for the sake of the people God has placed before us. Patrick “PJ” Johnson serves as a network administrator for Scott County Public Schools, Lead Pastor of Uplift Church in Weber City, Virginia, and an adjunct faculty member at the Appalachian School of Theology. He and his wife, Amanda, planted Uplift Church in their home in 2012. Patrick and Amanda have been married for 24 years and have four daughters. Melanie McMurray is married to her husband, Matt, and is raising three children, Elijah, Elan, and Salem. She serves as an administrator in Scott County Public Schools and as the children’s ministry director at Uplift Church. Melanie is also stepping into a new role as vice president of the Appalachian School of Theology. Related Resources: Join our Facebook group: Rural Renewal Podcast Community Email us: podcasts@freshexpressions.com Subscribe & Review Help us get the word out by subscribing and leaving a review for Rural Renewal Podcast on your favorite platform. Apple Podcasts Spotify Google Podcasts